Anime and Manga

[Psychodrake]

No way, J mechs are the best mechs except the really crap ones.



Thats one of the really crap ones. Its even called Aquarion which is a terrible name.



These are pretty damn awesome though.

[FungusA]

You're now giving examples against your own point. Japanese mechs are for the most part, terrible. There are a few that are good. however a lot of western mechs are cool, and you get a few shit ones. Japanese mechs for example, Evangelion, whilst not strictly mech, and look unable to support thier own weight, they look amazing. (I know they are in fact biological, but they look like mechs, so shush.)

[Psychodrake]

I can disagree still though because I think in terms of how many bad/good ones there are, they are pretty much equal. I've seen tons of these crappy knock-off mechs stolen from the designs used in Star Wars and Terminator that look god awful, and Japanese mechs are all pretty much variations of the basic Gundam design with added spikes and terrible. Evangelions probably wouldn't support their own weight but they really don't have to, because they are biological and the whole thing can be put onto the AT field giving a reason for the impossible design. Same with Gundam 00 that uses a particle to lower gravity's strength on it, it gives some sort of reason behind the look. The original Gundam was clunky and had trouble moving until the pilot became used to it, but was mostly used in space.

Too many terrible knock offs is what it all comes down to.

EDIT: Giving examples against my own point helps me rid of too much bias. I do like westernized mecha but I generally only like the good ones.

[Trygon]

Aug 11, 2010 11:57:16 GMT FungusA said:

You're now giving examples against your own point. Japanese mechs are for the most part, terrible. There are a few that are good. however a lot of western mechs are cool, and you get a few shit ones. Japanese mechs for example, Evangelion, whilst not strictly mech, and look unable to support thier own weight, they look amazing. (I know they are in fact biological, but they look like mechs, so shush.)

I think believability might be why Western 'Mechs' look better. You cannot really imagine most Japanese mechs to exist in real life due to the amount of pointless features and the illogical designs. Western Mechs are often military constructs and attempt to take into account the laws of physics and put function above aesthetics, so they look more 'real' and therefore less cartoony in design, giving them more impact.

For example, a Warlord Titan has massive legs to support it's crushing weight, two legs so that it can move through city streets, a huge torso to house it's powerplant and provide hard points for weapons. Everything looks built to serve a purpose and it looks like something you could see a military force build. Western Mechs in general are often very solid and heavy looking, which makes them look like actual war machines that have some purpose besides looking 'teh awesum' in a battle.


TL/DR: Japanese Mechs are shit. Titans are the shit.

[Psychodrake]

Aug 11, 2010 17:13:11 GMT Trygon said:

Aug 11, 2010 11:57:16 GMT FungusA said:

You're now giving examples against your own point. Japanese mechs are for the most part, terrible. There are a few that are good. however a lot of western mechs are cool, and you get a few shit ones. Japanese mechs for example, Evangelion, whilst not strictly mech, and look unable to support thier own weight, they look amazing. (I know they are in fact biological, but they look like mechs, so shush.)

I think believability might be why Western 'Mechs' look better. You cannot really imagine most Japanese mechs to exist in real life due to the amount of pointless features and the illogical designs. Western Mechs are often military constructs and attempt to take into account the laws of physics and put function above aesthetics, so they look more 'real' and therefore less cartoony in design, giving them more impact.

For example, a Warlord Titan has massive legs to support it's crushing weight, two legs so that it can move through city streets, a huge torso to house it's powerplant and provide hard points for weapons. Everything looks built to serve a purpose and it looks like something you could see a military force build. Western Mechs in general are often very solid and heavy looking, which makes them look like actual war machines that have some purpose besides looking 'teh awesum' in a battle.


TL/DR: Japanese Mechs are shit. Titans are the shit.

I can agree on every point but personally I like that Japanese mechs tend to be more along the lines of special forces than a tank. Gundam generally shows the mechs being used as a force to disrupt rather than to take on an entire force, sneaking behind lines to kill leaders and hurt morale while the actual tanks and ground forces push in from the front. No matter how you look at it and proved by the battle of Hoth in Star Wars, walkers are fragile, there is no point in them being enormous and covered in guns like a Warlord when toppling them is a good possibility. Actually scratch that, they can be covered in guns due to the height advantage, I made a small mistake with that, its more the fact that they should not be used in frontline assault and instead be used as support artillery, unless we're talking about the agile Warhounds or IG Sentinels which are made to do a similar job to Gundams.

Seriously, Warhound Titans remind of Gundams since they look so awesome doing what they do.

[kaosherald]

[Psychodrake]

My fave by far. The radiation arm was so cool.

[CephaSquiddy]

But you forgot my fave

[Trygon]

WTH SPAM?!

If it makes you feel any better I think this one looks pretty plausible;



The rest look crap.

And NO. Special Forces does not = MEGA BRIGHT COLOURS AND SWORDS AND HANG GLIDERS. There is nothing 'sneaky' about that shit.

[Psychodrake]

I said like special forces in the idea that they go behind the enemy lines and annihilate morale.

GAWD! L2READ

[Trygon]

Then they aren't Special Forces. They are Shock(?) Troopers like Spess Mehreens.

[Psychodrake]

Thats the right word. I couldn't think of the right one which is why I used Special Forces.

Yeah they most definitely are shock troops.

[Trygon]

Though, to be honest, they look more like they are made to dazzle the enemy then make them kak themselves. If I wanted to scare my foes, I'd make my mech look like a monstrous killing machine, covered in skulls, spikes and blades.

Kinda like this but lighter and with more guns:

[psychichobo]

To be fair, when I began playing Armoured Core, the second game onwards it went a bit naff cos they over-westernised it. Bright colours does look silly, but most people have had their fill of realism with Call of Duty: Modern Brownfar and the like. Armoured core also had options to paint and customise your own mech, so though the game was brightly coloured you could dirty yours up and it still looked pretty badass. Later Armorued cores were all dark, so the colouring didn't matter much and it felt lamer as a result.

Had actual physics though. Cooling systems, weight distribution, etc. Giant cannons were cool, but spindly legs meant your mech couldn't physically move due to excess weight.



But yeah! Back to the topic at hand. Is there anything recently released anime/manga-wise worth watching/reading?

[Psychodrake]

Aug 11, 2010 22:55:58 GMT Trygon said:

Though, to be honest, they look more like they are made to dazzle the enemy then make them kak themselves. If I wanted to scare my foes, I'd make my mech look like a monstrous killing machine, covered in skulls, spikes and blades.

Kinda like this but lighter and with more guns:

Sorry but all the guns look silly to me. There are just too many and I can't imagine it being any more effective than the one or two guns that Gundam carry. I like the base design because it looks a lot like a Terminator.

[Captain Malachi]

So you can't see how being able to shoot 10 targets at once (bear in mind they'll have advanced targetting systems/multiple gunners) is better than being able to shoot 2? Or how having various weapons for different targets is better? It may look slightly less cool but it actually would work, that's the difference.

Of course, that isn't actually a mech in the picture, but if it was it would be awesome and would make everyone within 5 miles shit themselves.

[Trygon]

Plus; it is album art I think. And most album art for Metal bands features flaming apocalypse raining down upon the viewer.

Though the point is; big, horrifying monsters = scary shit. Giant power rangers in bright colours = camp and very scary at all.

[Psychodrake]

Aug 12, 2010 1:44:42 GMT Trygon said:

Though the point is; big, horrifying monsters = scary shit. Giant power rangers in bright colours = camp and very scary at all.

Camp and very scary maybe? Though I wouldn't call it camp at all with the fanbase Gundam actually has. You gotta remember something, Gundam isn't made for as specific an audience as something like Warhammer. In terms of players I've seen far more males play Warhammer than I have females, the only one I've really seen is Alice. Gundam is made for a huge range of people. It isn't meant to be as manly, and I think its proven with Gundamus huge popularity with women as well. Its like comparing Gears of War to an anime game, most people say that Gears of War is a mans game with all these ripped guys running around while the anime game (Generalizing a bit) with the fanservice and boob jiggles is gay. Its the opposite way around really.

@captain Malachi - Would it really work? I think it would be an overheating machine with very little ammo, be really slow and fragile. It is more realistic but like I said, anime comes up with some crazy crap to explain itself.

I'd stop this argument but I'm still having fun with it.

Anyway, big spoilers ahead for anyone who is gonna watch Evangelion 2.0 but heres the "Beast mode" scene from the movie that completely removes the idea of Evangelions as mechs.

[Dangeresque]

Well, being one who doesn't "get" anime I'm going to ahave a little amount of bias. Having that "little" amount probably makes me have the least bias though... so... moot.



This is the first Mech. It is what defines "mech" in that it is a piloted vehicle with legs. It is a mech style that's often overlooked when people think "mech". It is probably this "exotic" (pffft) style is the best sort of mech, in my opinion. It's just so frighteningly tall and menacing, yet not covered with so many bloody colours und unessesary weapons that it just becomes sort of corny.



A close second is the "western mech" style as it usually resembles a tank or some other established "I kill lots of things" device with legs. It's not pretentious usually, it just walks in, shoots everything to shit and then walks back out again. If it has arms, they are guns (or some sort of punching close quarters device, like a powerfist or a drill), while any vestigial grasping arms are there to mount weapons or for situational usage (such as grabbing something out of the air, which a mech should probably just shoot anyway). It's dedicated to it's purpose as a machine that kills people, and if they're fancy then they're fancy in a badass way (usually a stylish shape for the bit that's not the legs or the guns... like the recent district 9 mech).

Lastly, there's your typical Japanse mech...



It's a flamboyant robot/human conglomeration that has to have some sort of silly ability that makes for some very explody special effects. They come in every colour under the sun, they fly about (despite being a bloody humanoid shape) and they seem to just be hugly impracticle and stupid to look at. It's not terrible in aspect (like the first mechs... Tripods and AT-AT and such), it's not a proud killing machine like the western mechs are. It's just a big multicoloured person wearing a big, overly complex suit that looks like an action figure (and... well... most of them are). Seriously, when I was looking for images I found one with a cape. Why?

Well, at least japanese people are jumping onto the better bandwagon. Shine on metal gear REX!

[Captain Malachi]

Psychodrake: You've got to remember that what Trygon posted wasn't a mech, it's a terminator. If it was a mech then it would be much bigger, much more stable and have a lot of room for ammo and coolant systems that you couldn't get on a smaller platform. Combine that with more than one crew member and it'd be very easy to have a lot of guns firing in more than one direction. It would also probably lose the chainswords, but that's a whole other thing entirely...

Anyway, animes: I was watching pokémon the other day and... well yeah it's shit, that's pretty much it. I just wanted to say something about something other than mechs. Bye!